Mid County Bridge

Mid County Bridge




How about a controversial topic to discuss.

I know the two sides, and I have always sat firmly on the side of 'No Bridge'

Last week, while staying in KDH, we took a ride up to Currituck Light one afternoon. It has been over 5 years since I was last in Corolla. When we first started vacationing in the OBX, we always stayed in Corolla, and it was only a few years ago that we started coming down to the Kitty Hawk, KDH, Nags Head area. As such we have a fondness for both areas.

My observation. The Corolla we know and fell in love with is going away fast, in fact I would say it's gone already. Was just shocked by the areas that had not only new homes in place, but were putting up new homes. I cannot imagine what 12 is like in the summertime up there now with all the residents and vacationers. Give it another year and there won't be any free space left except north where the road ends.

I simply do not see a way that the bridge is stopped.


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RE: Mid County Bridge




My wife's aunt and uncle bought in 1988, and we've been going since 1990. Corolla is unrecognizable compared to over 30 years ago.


RE: Mid County Bridge




The obstacle is money. Everything else is just static.


RE: Mid County Bridge




I totally agree. Been going to OBX my entire life, primarily NH and Corolla. We eventually got our house in Duck. But I feel like Corolla is a lot of McMansion developments and so congested. Furthermore I feel like the traffic up route 12 ruins and congests Duck for those of us that live there. I'd like to see the bridge b/c while it will disrupt wildlife, once it is settled, the wildlife will settle back in. The bridge will environmentally be less driving and congestion and pollution of the SH, Duck area to get ALL those people up there. They just KEEP building too up in Corolla! And all those houses hold SO many people.

The bridge will take 25 more years to be built though! JMO! They have literally been talking about it since I was a kid.


RE: Mid County Bridge




My wife's aunt and uncle bought in 1988, and we've been going since 1990. Corolla is unrecognizable compared to over 30 years ago.

PaulOinMA


Totally!!! I remember the first time I stand on Pine Island (back in the 90s) I have pictures and it was our house and 2 others and not another I could see. Now it is like townhouses on the beach there are so many and so close! I feel like I could pass my neighbors the ketchup from deck to deck!


RE: Mid County Bridge




The obstacle is money. Everything else is just static.

KDHBreeze


well - money and a long line of over-paid lawyers paid to fight it like they did with the Oregon Inlet bridge. It might come, but what year? 2040?


RE: Mid County Bridge




The obstacle is money. Everything else is just static.

KDHBreeze


well - money and a long line of over-paid lawyers paid to fight it like they did with the Oregon Inlet bridge. It might come, but what year? 2040?


RE: Mid County Bridge




The obstacle is money. Everything else is just static.

KDHBreeze


well - money and a long line of over-paid lawyers paid to fight it like they did with the Oregon Inlet bridge. It might come, but what year? 2040?

Tim-OBX


If there's no money to build the bridge, whether a theoretical design meets required specs and complies with the law really isn't relevant. Ironically, there could be no litigation and suits would result in easy dismissals if certain entities would stop trying to inflate value by advancing administrative aspect of a bridge they don't intend to build.

There's no shortage of legal work out there, and this isn't the lucrative kind. Compared to most types of litigation, it's pretty poor compensation. Most doing it are doing the work because they are true believers in their particular cause.

The interesting thing is why it would be worth promoting an unfunded bridge knowing that would necessarily trigger litigation about something not even remotely close to being built.


RE: Mid County Bridge




How about a controversial topic to discuss.

I know the two sides, and I have always sat firmly on the side of 'No Bridge'

Last week, while staying in KDH, we took a ride up to Currituck Light one afternoon. It has been over 5 years since I was last in Corolla. When we first started vacationing in the OBX, we always stayed in Corolla, and it was only a few years ago that we started coming down to the Kitty Hawk, KDH, Nags Head area. As such we have a fondness for both areas.

My observation. The Corolla we know and fell in love with is going away fast, in fact I would say it's gone already. Was just shocked by the areas that had not only new homes in place, but were putting up new homes. I cannot imagine what 12 is like in the summertime up there now with all the residents and vacationers. Give it another year and there won't be any free space left except north where the road ends.

I simply do not see a way that the bridge is stopped.

Bill


My Aunt and Uncle had a small cottage up there they sold in 2000. Its been literally 20 years since I've been up there. Went up early one day in September to shoot some video when were down and I couldn't believe the amount of homes and the amount of traffic at 7am on a weekday. I can't imagine and never intend to find out what its like in summer months.


RE: Mid County Bridge




I think the real question is will you be able to get pizza delivery over the bridge?

[ducks and runs]


RE: Mid County Bridge




Just a rhetorical question: Where does the money come from to do anything in terms of infrastructure?


RE: Mid County Bridge




Just a rhetorical question: Where does the money come from to do anything in terms of infrastructure?

CoolBreezeKDH


Usually State and local taxes, via selling of Bonds, FED money, money projections from tolls. Their are many sources it comes from


RE: Mid County Bridge




With the poor planning of having the size of the buildup Corolla has and having to pass through the nightmare traffic bottleneck in Duck the bridge is needed. Badly.


RE: Mid County Bridge




Just a rhetorical question: Where does the money come from to do anything in terms of infrastructure?

CoolBreezeKDH


Usually State and local taxes, via selling of Bonds, FED money, money projections from tolls. Their are many sources it comes from

Laszlo


That's my point. The answer can't remain "there's no money for it." They sell bonds, create a toll road and build the bridge. In fact, this project is a no brainer. Who here remembers life before the Chesapeake expressway? Driving single file in traffic from Great Bridge to the sound, then over a 2 lane bridge with traffic going both ways? Tolls from out of state drivers financing the project? The horse is already out of the barn on this, as Bill has noticed.


RE: Mid County Bridge




That bridge would mean Norfolk is an hour away, I bet that would increase the year round population.

I will be long sold out of Ocean Sands if and when the first car crosses that bridge, but an hour to Norfolk make a retirement in Whalehead very attractive to me.

Until Carova gets some kind of historical designation or other, that will one day get paved up the middle...my grandfather would talk about how no one would ever buy the worthless, mosquito infested swamp land west of RT 35 on the NJ barrier islands and how they had land listed at $10 a lot in the 30's.


RE: Mid County Bridge




The obstacle is money. Everything else is just static.

KDHBreeze


well - money and a long line of over-paid lawyers paid to fight it like they did with the Oregon Inlet bridge. It might come, but what year? 2040?

Tim-OBX


If there's no money to build the bridge, whether a theoretical design meets required specs and complies with the law really isn't relevant. Ironically, there could be no litigation and suits would result in easy dismissals if certain entities would stop trying to inflate value by advancing administrative aspect of a bridge they don't intend to build.

There's no shortage of legal work out there, and this isn't the lucrative kind. Compared to most types of litigation, it's pretty poor compensation. Most doing it are doing the work because they are true believers in their particular cause.

The interesting thing is why it would be worth promoting an unfunded bridge knowing that would necessarily trigger litigation about something not even remotely close to being built.

KDHBreeze


Public/Private partnerships are all the rage in highway construction these days. You'd be shocked to hear how many highways/Bridges are owned by foreign entities. They make their money back in tolls.
As far as litigation, don't forget where the legal fees came from in the fight for the Bonner Bridge Replacement project. Southern Environmental Law Center and The Defenders of Wildlife...Flush with cash from feel good donations.


RE: Mid County Bridge




The obstacle is money. Everything else is just static.

KDHBreeze


well - money and a long line of over-paid lawyers paid to fight it like they did with the Oregon Inlet bridge. It might come, but what year? 2040?

Tim-OBX


If there's no money to build the bridge, whether a theoretical design meets required specs and complies with the law really isn't relevant. Ironically, there could be no litigation and suits would result in easy dismissals if certain entities would stop trying to inflate value by advancing administrative aspect of a bridge they don't intend to build.

There's no shortage of legal work out there, and this isn't the lucrative kind. Compared to most types of litigation, it's pretty poor compensation. Most doing it are doing the work because they are true believers in their particular cause.

The interesting thing is why it would be worth promoting an unfunded bridge knowing that would necessarily trigger litigation about something not even remotely close to being built.

KDHBreeze


Public/Private partnerships are all the rage in highway construction these days. You'd be shocked to hear how many highways/Bridges are owned by foreign entities. They make their money back in tolls.
As far as litigation, don't forget where the legal fees came from in the fight for the Bonner Bridge Replacement project. Southern Environmental Law Center and The Defenders of Wildlife...Flush with cash from feel good donations.

Squid Pro Quo


Virginia has done several. The problem isn't that there isn't a public/private partnership theoretically possible, but that ten years into trying (they were working this angle when VA was doing several of its deals) they haven't yet been able to show the bridge would pass more year round traffic than the Wright Bridge does now, and at $25-30 per car (either one way, or a toll split each way). That was to break even on the 2018 projected construction cost. There are some private foreign entities that would fund a project, but not at that break even point, so they would either need that amount of cars per day at a higher cost per car, many more cars, or another larger state funding block.

Any of those options would mean becoming a day trip destination, which may or may not be what residents want long term.

It doesn't have the advantage of connecting two separate counties, which usually helps funding.


RE: Mid County Bridge




I keep scratching my head at the perpetual claim that there's no money.

For those of you who have been saying this, are you aware that the land acquisition is more or less done?

Were you aware that NCDOT has not been wasting time on a project they can't fund? I heard NCDOT's presentation two years ago, and they have a good handle on the funding. They plan to do some of it through a toll ($6 each way was batted about) on vehicle traffic with a reduction for locals, just as the Chesapeake Expressway has.

But tolls won't fund most of it. The funding will come from various buckets of state funds.

Tim is right. What's holding up the project is litigation by the SELC on behalf of some locals and some non-local environmentalists. It will get settled, as it was for the Oregon Inlet Bridge, with some environmental concessions on the part of the state.

The apparent cut off of funding happened about 10 years ago when an attempt was made to fund road projects based on the number of people they would serve, thus cutting off almost all the rural projects. That was modified a few years later when the rural state legislators (of which there are many) realized that the criteria that had been set up would mean all the road money would go to the Research Triangle, the Triad, and Charlotte. That's the simple version of the legislation without the politics that went along with it.

I understand that there are many, many people who would like the Outer Banks to stay they way they were when those people first visited here. And those folks are joined by lots of locals. But time marches on, and it will in this case. It's not a problem of no money!


RE: Mid County Bridge




My wife's aunt and uncle bought in 1988, and we've been going since 1990. Corolla is unrecognizable compared to over 30 years ago.

PaulOinMA


Go outside your home and look around. Is it unrecognizable compared to over 30 years ago? Oh! Your house is not 30 years old and used to be farmland. Lol!

Weather good or bad. It's called progress and new homes are built by demand. It happens everywhere, not only the OBX.


RE: Mid County Bridge




My wife's aunt and uncle bought in 1988, and we've been going since 1990. Corolla is unrecognizable compared to over 30 years ago.

PaulOinMA


Go outside your home and look around. Is it unrecognizable compared to over 30 years ago? Oh! Your house is not 30 years old and used to be farmland. Lol!

Weather good or bad. It's called progress and new homes are built by demand. It happens everywhere, not only the OBX.

JimmyZ


Great point Jimmy Z. We built our house 15 years ago on three acres bought off of a local farmer. It was funny going to local establishments and hearing people, who did not know us, comment on how they could not believe that someone is building a new house and how the rural area was going to be ruined. It seemed silly to me at the time....until someone bought several acres next to me and built a house. Now I know where they were coming from.


RE: Mid County Bridge




My wife's aunt and uncle bought in 1988, and we've been going since 1990. Corolla is unrecognizable compared to over 30 years ago.

PaulOinMA


Go outside your home and look around. Is it unrecognizable compared to over 30 years ago? Oh! Your house is not 30 years old and used to be farmland. Lol!

Weather good or bad. It's called progress and new homes are built by demand. It happens everywhere, not only the OBX.

JimmyZ


Most houses aren't 30 years old, for one reason or another. Barrier island homes don't have the lifespan of those on the mainland, for many reasons.

And any land available for sale is likely to be developed. The trouble is that even most who buy to hold eventually see values driven high enough that they can't justify just holding the land undeveloped, even if that was their original intention.

Funny thing this year is that we had two lots for sale on our street and neither sold/developed. But we have two new houses - one courtesy of a fire, and one courtesy of the cost of renovating and repairing being more costly than a tear down and build. Never a dull moment.


RE: Mid County Bridge




Not to be stupid - but I thought the bridge WAS approved and was only delayed this year b/c of COVID? I was just thinking it will take forever to build.

Also, as someone in Duck I wouldn't hate the bridge, it was ease SO much congestion as Corolla has the bulk of the people on North12 and they would all take that bridge and ease the congestion further south. I mean, I might be able to leave my house in car instead of a bike on weekends! Tounge smiley


RE: Mid County Bridge




Not to be stupid - but I thought the bridge WAS approved and was only delayed this year b/c of COVID? I was just thinking it will take forever to build.

Also, as someone in Duck I wouldn't hate the bridge, it was ease SO much congestion as Corolla has the bulk of the people on North12 and they would all take that bridge and ease the congestion further south. I mean, I might be able to leave my house in car instead of a bike on weekends! Tounge smiley

groovygirl222


IT has been approved multiple times. It's not funded.

It's not likely it would ease traffic overall, because it requires 3-4 times the number of cars coming into Corolla than currently happen. It would likely ease some pain points, especially in certain neighborhoods, but it does so by increasing the overall amount of traffic, so it definitely has more benefit for some at the expense of another larger group of residents.


RE: Mid County Bridge




Corolla has changed so much in the past 30 years. We stayed there the past two years but last summer will be the last. Getting up there on the weekend is bad enough but even worse getting out at the end of the week. We left at 9 AM and it took 2 1/2 hours to get to Whalebone Junction. While the check-in, check-out process was seamless, Rt. 12 is gridlock and it is beyond my imagination how rental companies can service the vacation rentals because it is so difficult and time consuming to even get to them. In 2019 we met the housekeeper scoping out our rental on the Friday before Saturday departure and how she beats the congestion.

We chose Rodanthe this year as our choices in Topsail were already booked solid. Looks like 2021 will be another busy year for vacation rentals.


RE: Mid County Bridge




My belief is the bridge will be built much sooner rather than later. We've lived here 16 years and it feels like orders to evacuate are now being announced days earlier than in the past. Even before the track of a storm is certain or almost certain. IMO this is because we have more & more permanent residents & visitors on OBX with only 2 ways to get out of dodge. Watch out when the boy cried wolf mindset takes hold where few evacuate when the orders are issued because our emergency managing folks develop a track record of being more wrong than right. When they are right we'll have a mess as people who have waited to see the track start to evacuate.

How will having only 2 bridges effect the rental market when evacuation orders are issued 1 week in advance of MAYBE a storm making landfall here? Probably not very good. We've witnessed vacationers CarCar headed here on turnover day who find out during the trip they need to turn around and go home. If it were me I think I would find someplace else to spend my money and time off if there was a chance I would be turned away. Sun


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