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Senate passes bill that will change ORV plan

Senate passes bill that will change ORV plan




[quote]The Cape Hatteras legislation instructs the Secretary of Interior to review and adjust wildlife protection buffers, keep them in place the shortest possible duration, designate vehicle and pedestrian corridors around resource closures, and confer with the state of North Carolina on certain buffers and protections.

It also makes other modifications to the final ORV plan, such as conducting a public process to consider such changes as the earlier opening of beaches that are closed at night during the summer, extending seasonal ORV routes in the fall and spring, and modifying the size and location of vehicle-free areas.
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A victory for reasonable access.

islandfreepress.org/2014A...


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RE: Senate passes bill that will change ORV plan




Definately a step in the right direction. Can't wait to see how it plays out. Now if we could only get a bridge.


RE: Senate passes bill that will change ORV plan




The question is how the DOI will interpet the latitude given to them in the legislation's wording; many items can be interpreted in several ways and used to avoid any changes (like the 'not straining resources' phrase), and I suspect that is the compromise in the wording, so that things can be 'interpeted'. It is not a hard set of directions. (That I can see; I would be happy to be wrong.)


RE: Senate passes bill that will change ORV plan




Don't get too excited yet. NPS, DFW, EPA, have a new threatened species in the wings that they've been working on to replace the plover: Red Knot. It is everywhere on the beaches. They were all very disappointed when a real study did not include the Outer Banks as critical habitat for the sea turtle and the plover doesn't close enough area. This one should do it for them.


RE: Senate passes bill that will change ORV plan




Barnacle,

The red Knot is transient to Hatteras. IF there are restrictions in regards to that species it would be a precedent as NPS does not provide special measures for migrating, non-nesting species.
The new legislation mandates that access options be provided - we'll see how helpful the new superintendent and his crew wish to be.
We'll know very shortly!


RE: Senate passes bill that will change ORV plan




[quote]The Cape Hatteras legislation instructs the Secretary of Interior to review and adjust wildlife protection buffers, keep them in place the shortest possible duration, designate vehicle and pedestrian corridors around resource closures, and confer with the state of North Carolina on certain buffers and protections.

It also makes other modifications to the final ORV plan, such as conducting a public process to consider such changes as the earlier opening of beaches that are closed at night during the summer, extending seasonal ORV routes in the fall and spring, and modifying the size and location of vehicle-free areas.

Thumbs up USA Flag

A victory for reasonable access.

NOT SO FAST ...For all of you that may think that the pork legislation by Congress in the defense bill will cease ORV regulations may be in for a big shock. Per the regulations currently in effect, the NPS was due to review soon anyway and will recommend any necessary adjustments and/or changes. Be careful what you wish for, because the NPS may (but probably not) recommend further restrictions for ORVs and has the option of closing all of CHNS to ORV use. I seriously doubt that fees, VFAs or pedesterian access will be eliminated or will face serious change. Seasonal closures will not be eliminated or adequate protection for nesting shorebirds and sea turtles will not be reduced. Remember the ESA dictates protection for threatened and endangered species. As for the NPS following NCWRC guidelines for birds of concern such as the Oyster Catcher and certain Terns, plead you case to the NCWRC and if they remove those species from that list I would imagine the NPS would follow their direction.

The pork legislation will certainly not eliminate or restrict the Cape Lookout ORV current management planning or implementation by the NPS and an ORV management plan must and will be put into place there.


RE: Senate passes bill that will change ORV plan




^^ A lot of typing to say nothing. Banana Party


RE: Senate passes bill that will change ORV plan




^^ A lot of typing to say nothing. Banana Party


No kidding! This is the equivalent of "Looketh Over There." Sour grapes is all.

Good first step in restoring access to our National Seashore Recreation Area. It took 20 years for the unprincipled, self-serving special interests to incrementally chip away and unreasonably restrict access via underhanded, profiteering litigation. The outcome is failed results in all measures in all areas (Resource protection, Recreation and enjoyment, Economic Impact).

Thankfully, citizen representative-driven legislation is a good first step in restoring public trust and access to our Public Lands. The People have spoken. Let us press on and restore reasonable closure sizes, durations and locations here and elsewhere, to the benefit of resource protection, reasonable access and economic vitality. May it take 20 years to undo the recent unpleasantness and mismanagement? Perhaps.

Press on regardless.


RE: Senate passes bill that will change ORV plan




The other aspect of access that so many seem to be overlooking is the fact that NPS is being mandated to increase visitation - particularly among our youth. Tough to do when you are closing off vast areas of the beach. Perhaps our new superintendent will use his knowledge and common sense to manage and not fall for the trash "science" of enviro extortionists and the heavy hand from the bench of an inept/corrupt judge. We shall see.


RE: Senate passes bill that will change ORV plan




Hi Dennis,

Don't look, but I believe your hubris is showing. Whistle


RE: Senate passes bill that will change ORV plan




Hi Dennis,

Don't look, but I believe your hubris is showing. Whistle



It is what it is and will be ... Sorry you can't handle it and think political pork will eliminate ORV management at CHNS. Piggy


RE: Senate passes bill that will change ORV plan




Jesus Christ Dennis. You have your head so far up the a$$ of NPS you can hardly see daylight (or read for that matter) Where in the legislation do you see anything to lead someone to believe ORV's will be unregulated..... Angry smiley


RE: Senate passes bill that will change ORV plan




Jesus Christ Dennis. You have your head so far up the a$$ of NPS you can hardly see daylight (or read for that matter) Where in the legislation do you see anything to lead someone to believe ORV's will be unregulated..... Angry smiley


Lighten up, Francis. We're all in this together ...

Exactly Bubba, isn't it incredible that lots of your pals believe that ORV use at CHNS will one day be unregulated ... In love


RE: Senate passes bill that will change ORV plan




You are a complete idiot....Not that I didn't already know that.


RE: Senate passes bill that will change ORV plan




Dennis you sound like a petulant child who has lost his right as the line leader in school. NOBODY (but you) said the NPS will be out of CHNS, just that they will have to play by a whole different set of rules that even Judge Boyle cant tinker with. The rest of us like that and see some sanity coming to the Recreation Area. Sorry you dont, but relax and give it awhile, you might find you like being able to drive past a closed access to get to the beach as common sense would dictate should be done!


RE: Senate passes bill that will change ORV plan




Dennis you sound like a petulant child who has lost his right as the line leader in school. NOBODY (but you) said the NPS will be out of CHNS, just that they will have to play by a whole different set of rules that even Judge Boyle cant tinker with. The rest of us like that and see some sanity coming to the Recreation Area. Sorry you dont, but relax and give it awhile, you might find you like being able to drive past a closed access to get to the beach as common sense would dictate should be done!


Soooooooooo lets just try and leave personalities out of this conversation. We can take it as a given that dennis is a petulant, moronic disliked idiot OK?

Let me begin by noteing that the bogus bill that could not and would not stand on it own merit and was included in the defense bill is nothing but pure political pork.

The legislation IMO really changes very little. First and foremost there are those out there that the bill is the holy grail that will eliminate NPS management procedures and techniques at CHNS and that just isn't going to happen.

The bill calls for a review and that was in the works per the FEIS and tweaks can and probably will be implemented. Some changes have already taken place such as the on-line purchase of the beach-access permit and viewing on-line of the mandatory video. IMO the permit process should be changed to allow for month/year purchases be made versus an calendar year permit.

Of course the NPS will no be out of CHNS. BTW in regards to your post,I did not say that they would; however contrary to what some like yourself believe it will not be that "they will have to play by a whole different set of rules that even Judge Boyle cant tinker with."

Will permit fees be eliminated or drastically changed? ... my guess is not.

Will seasonal closures be eliminated or drastically changed? ... nope ... closures may or may not be modified, but they will continue to be implemented for nesting shore birds and sea turtles.

Will night ORV restrictions be eliminated? ... doubtful although the hours may be modified.

Will VFAs be eliminated? ... no ... there may be minor modifications, but they will not be eliminated.

Will pedesterian only access be changed or eliminated? ... doubt it will happen.

Will the judicial system have legal say on ORV management at CHNS? ... certainly will!

My feeling is that "sanity" now is in place at CHNS vs the insanity that was there prior to the consent decree and the implementation of the regulations by the NPS. CURRENTLY If I desire I can drive my ORV at CHNS by paying for a permit for that priviledge, I can fish, I can swim, I can kayak, I can enjoy the flora and fauna and that is a good thing.


RE: Senate passes bill that will change ORV plan





My feeling is that "insanity" now is in place at CHNSRA vs the sanity that was there prior to the consent decree and the implementation of the regulations by the NPS.


Well, Sir.
First, Merry Christmas.
Second, methinks you have transposed sanity and insanity in your post. Therefore, I corrected it.
Enjoy Christmas. Star


RE: Senate passes bill that will change ORV plan




Well Merry Christmas to you to from
Santy Claus
?? Banana


RE: Senate passes bill that will change ORV plan




Dennis,
Do you regard all of the new national park lands added to the system by this bill as pork also? Or do you only disagree with the Cape Hatteras portion? I understand that this is the largest addition to park service lands in many years and that most of it has been eagerly received and supported by the NPS. And, BTW, I do agree with you that there will probably be no changes made. But, unlike you, I think that will be a travesty. I certainly hope we are wrong. 2dogs


RE: Senate passes bill that will change ORV plan




Dennis,
Do you regard all of the new national park lands added to the system by this bill as pork also? Or do you only disagree with the Cape Hatteras portion? I understand that this is the largest addition to park service lands in many years and that most of it has been eagerly received and supported by the NPS. And, BTW, I do agree with you that there will probably be no changes made. But, unlike you, I think that will be a travesty. I certainly hope we are wrong. 2dogs


An interesting post ... My belief is that any bill submitted to Congress should stand on its own merit and not be included to any bill submitted that does not relate. As you know the President does not have authorization for pocket veto, ergo there is so much crud, aka pork in many bills that are not relevant and should never be included.

Your post brought a bit of a chuckle in that I doubt that many of the anti-NPS, anti-enviro and anti-govt folks that post on this cesspool even know that any other NPS legislation was included in the defense bill. See link:

Click to follow link...

Those folks will be sure to consider this a land-grab by the government and the fact that it is included in the defense bill along with NPS CHNS ORV review shows a bit of irony doesn't it?

IMO, with the addition of areas of responsibility and management to the NPS brings on stress on how the NPS will be able to adequately manage those new responsibilities. The NPS has and is currently facing budget cuts that prevent the NPS from conducting current operations to full capabilities. See link below:

Click to follow link...

I did not say that no changes will be made at CHNS in regards to ORV use. I believe that some areas of review may be adjusted, i.e. permit month/year change and times of night ORV closure may be adjusted. My thought is the key word being adjusted, not eliminated, but whatever changes may occur the NPS will provide adequate protection to nesting shorebirds and sea turtles unless Congress decides to scrap the Endangered Species Act (ESA).

I would be the first to admit that I am not an expert and the above is only my opinion, but my words do not include calling anyone an penchant, moronic, disliked idiot do they?






RE: Senate passes bill that will change ORV plan





My feeling is that "sanity" now is in place at CHNSRA vs the insanity that was there prior to the consent decree and the implementation of the regulations by the NPS.




If you are going to quote me, methinks you should do it without changing my words ... Big grin


RE: Senate passes bill that will change ORV plan





I did not say that no changes will be made at CHNS in regards to ORV use. I believe that some areas of review may be adjusted, i.e. permit month/year change and times of night ORV closure may be adjusted. My thought is the key word being adjusted, not eliminated, but whatever changes may occur the NPS will provide adequate protection to nesting shorebirds and sea turtles unless Congress decides to scrap the Endangered Species Act (ESA).


Of course changes could be made, there is no evidence any of the new rules and regulations have improved anything. We have only seen less visitation, less economic activity, less access, and the same resources success. No one has ever asked for elimination of resource protections or the NPS. Resources have been managed and protected since the park started, the NPS are now being mismanaged and politicized.


RE: Senate passes bill that will change ORV plan




Changes? it depends on whether real compromise is intended by the ORV orgs or just more smoke and mirrors, name calling and character bashing aimed at all who oppose there POV.
Anyone who as followed this knows the people moving Sec. 3057 are only concerned with ORV use on the national park beach, period.
No ones can say that last years plover and AMOY results could not have been much worse if the old regs had been in place or that the local economic conditions could have been identical no matter what the final rules looked like.


RE: Senate passes bill that will change ORV plan





I did not say that no changes will be made at CHNS in regards to ORV use. I believe that some areas of review may be adjusted, i.e. permit month/year change and times of night ORV closure may be adjusted. My thought is the key word being adjusted, not eliminated, but whatever changes may occur the NPS will provide adequate protection to nesting shorebirds and sea turtles unless Congress decides to scrap the Endangered Species Act (ESA).


Of course changes could be made, there is no evidence any of the new rules and regulations have improved anything. We have only seen less visitation, less economic activity, less access, and the same resources success. No one has ever asked for elimination of resource protections or the NPS. Resources have been managed and protected since the park started, the NPS are now being mismanaged and politicized.


Just what specific "changes" do you recommend?

How quick we forget:

Click to follow link...

Note: the article sez: "The complaint asks the court to determine that NPS acted improperly and to prevent NPS from implementing its final ORV management plan and rules."


RE: Senate passes bill that will change ORV plan





I did not say that no changes will be made at CHNS in regards to ORV use. I believe that some areas of review may be adjusted, i.e. permit month/year change and times of night ORV closure may be adjusted. My thought is the key word being adjusted, not eliminated, but whatever changes may occur the NPS will provide adequate protection to nesting shorebirds and sea turtles unless Congress decides to scrap the Endangered Species Act (ESA).


Of course changes could be made, there is no evidence any of the new rules and regulations have improved anything. We have only seen less visitation, less economic activity, less access, and the same resources success. No one has ever asked for elimination of resource protections or the NPS. Resources have been managed and protected since the park started, the NPS are now being mismanaged and politicized.


Just what specific "changes" do you recommend?

How quick we forget:

Click to follow link...

Note: the article sez: "The complaint asks the court to determine that NPS acted improperly and to prevent NPS from implementing its final ORV management plan and rules."


If the complaint won, the seashore would have reverted back to the Interim management plan and the birds and turtles would still been protected. Even before the Interim plan, birds and turtles were provided protections. So you simply don't understand what was being proposed.

Changes could be lots of things, like shorten the night time restrictions, use state wildlife guidelines for species management, consider local input and knowledge, remove or make seasonal some of the VFAs, stop construction of unnecessary ramps and use existing ones that were closed for no reason. I could go on and on...


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