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Passenger Ferry - Ocracoke

Passenger Ferry - Ocracoke




Required draft would have been nice to know.

www.islandfreepress.org/2...


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RE: Passenger Ferry - Ocracoke




NCDOT needs to own this sucker.




RE: Passenger Ferry - Ocracoke




NCDOT needs to own this sucker.


yes and what it really needs is a system that when it dredges the inlets, the sand goes to the beaches...pretty simple solution.


RE: Passenger Ferry - Ocracoke




I guess the question is - What problem is a passenger ferry going to solve? The longer route due to shoaling? OK.

Landing at O'Coke with no vehicle, or even with bikes, provides little to no visitor experience. It is over 13miles to town. This is not like going from Staten Island to Manhattan where there are transportation options.

Perhaps, if an enterprising individual wanted to start an hourly taxi service on the island... Wink smiley

Oh, and sidecasters like the ACE Merritt don't accomplish much in the Inlet (just moves the sand temporarily). The dredge spoils need to be hoppered and shipped or piped up to Buxton, or north Hatteras Village (such as after Isabel), or even deposited on the dredge islands.


RE: Passenger Ferry - Ocracoke




Since NCDOT is on record that Ferries cannot replace the Bonner and NCDOT is still in secret negotiations with SELC, the timing for this is suspicious. Ferry riders still have to get to HI first. If anyone recalls the Facebook battle between Bridge Moms and the Chapel Hill crowd, The fantasy of High speed shallow draft being a solution here is a fave with them.


RE: Passenger Ferry - Ocracoke




NCDOT needs to own this sucker.


That thing is not the solution, it is the problem! Try it in your yard. Dig a hole and then just leave the dirt next to the hole. Wait for it to rain. Where does the dirt go?



RE: Passenger Ferry - Ocracoke




The high speed ferry will transit between Hatteras and Silver Lake.


RE: Passenger Ferry - Ocracoke




United States Ferry Industry know's how do deal with every thing! they are top notch people!


RE: Passenger Ferry - Ocracoke




I'm skeptical that these things can run in the sound. I use them all the time at Mackinac Island, but that's Lake Huron. But I'm all for it if it shortens my wait time for the car ferry.


RE: Passenger Ferry - Ocracoke




Seems like a decent experiment. I thought 1.5 hours for the crossing to Silver Lake seemed high but it's about 25 miles including all the required slow speed channel navigation, so that seems reasonable too. Figure out a little shuttle service to the guarded beach from town and you've got the bases covered.

It's an interesting location. These were shrimpers (assume they were shrimping?) working soundside just about half way between Hatteras and Silver Lake last time I was down there with the boat






RE: Passenger Ferry - Ocracoke




The high speed ferry will transit between Hatteras and Silver Lake.


Rob - thanks for the correction. I need to improve my reading comprehension skills. Embaressed smiley



RE: Passenger Ferry - Ocracoke




The high speed ferry will transit between Hatteras and Silver Lake.


Rob - thanks for the correction. I need to improve my reading comprehension skills. Embaressed smiley


AMEN!!!

The passenger ferry is not a new concept and Dr. Stan Riggs of ECU has stated that as an option for mode of transportation for the ever shifting sands of the Outer Banks.

As far as transportation upon arrival, note what is done at Bald Head Island, NC.

Click to follow link...


RE: Passenger Ferry - Ocracoke




The high speed ferry will transit between Hatteras and Silver Lake.


Rob - thanks for the correction. I need to improve my reading comprehension skills. Embaressed smiley


AMEN!!!



The passenger ferry is not a new concept and Dr. Stan Riggs of ECU has stated that as an option for mode of transportation for the ever shifting sands of the Outer Banks.

As far as transportation upon arrival, note what is done at Bald Head Island, NC.

Click to follow link...


Save your praying for church tomorrow Dennis. This idea was not intended to replace vehicle access to the islands, only to supplement it. So don't site that jack butt Riggs on this post. We are all painfully aware of his movement to isolate the Islands of Hatteras and Ocracoke for bird brain use exclusively, and to prevent the replacement of the H. C. Bonner Bridge.

PS: I, and many others, were hoping they hadn't let you out of your mental rehab after your nervous breakdown just yet...... Confused Confused Loser


RE: Passenger Ferry - Ocracoke






AMEN!!!

The passenger ferry is not a new concept and Dr. Stan Riggs of ECU has stated that as an option for mode of transportation for the ever shifting sands of the Outer Banks.



Riggs and his ilk are calling and planning for depopulation of the islands south of the Bonner, Emil, as the quote below shows:

[b]I am actually trying to preserve the "somewhere" of Hatteras Island from unwise infrastructure planning. I think my feelings for Hatteras Island are clear: I am simply making a different set of tradeoffs between the wonderful natural and cultural resources of the island and the "cost," both financial and in terms of the nature of human habitation and use of Hatteras, from some others.[/b]

-Michael Orbach, professor emeritus of marine policy at the Duke Marine Lab in Beaufort, N.C., October 2014



Do you agree with and support this stance?




RE: Passenger Ferry - Ocracoke




NCDOT needs to own this sucker.


That thing is not the solution, it is the problem! Try it in your yard. Dig a hole and then just leave the dirt next to the hole. Wait for it to rain. Where does the dirt go?


John, that thing is the only "Short term" solution to dredging a navigable channel for vessel travel. Obviously pumping the sand to another area would be preferable, but at four times the cost. Also, do you remember the problems getting a permit to pump sand from Hatteras Inlet to the Isabel Breach in 2003? It was almost scrapped because the dredge pipe had to run through a wetlands area along the pole road. Now after twelve years of increased environmental regulation, a rain puddle is considered wetlands! That's why I said NCDOT should own that piece of junk and run it down the channel weekly.


RE: Passenger Ferry - Ocracoke






Rob - thanks for the correction. I need to improve my reading comprehension skills. Embaressed smiley


AMEN!!!



Dad always told me, a strong person admits their own errors and shortcomings, and atones. A weak person point those out in others, pompously.

Thanks for proving Dad right.

As for Baldy - I have been there. You? What bridge or highway did the ferries replace to create this wonderful golf course community?


Oh, well, I digress. Looks like the proposed ferry to Silver Lake is a nice trial. Interested in seeing how it works out.



RE: Passenger Ferry - Ocracoke




The catamaran ferry shown in the article is made for making good speed in deeper water. Typical draft is 6' for small ones and up to 9' for larger passenger ones; I dunno on this particular one but 4' would be unusual or maybe not possible; the deep vee shape and the small 'footprint' of the hull automatically results in a deeper draft. (Sorry, it's a laws-of-physics thing, and is not subject to change from political pressure or dreaming.) The car ferries used to Hatteras are 4' draft.

The longer ferry route over to Silver Lake will probably require another dredged channel to accomodate the draft of this type of ferry (and even if it is a 4' draft), and with the shallower car ferries hanging up as they do, the catamaran's draft will require limited speeds for safety; any high speed encounter with a shoal would likely result in injuries. So the inherent speed of the craft design does not appear useful here. Accomodating more passenger flow for day visitors with lower capital cost is the benefit if it is doable.

The environmentally counterproductive side of this idea is that more land will have to be put under asphalt for parked cars on the Hatteras side. There is nowhere near adequate parking for the cars to utilize this. So that capital cost and use of land for this (that will lie idle most of they year) has to be counted in it's costs.

As for Bald Head Island, any work trucks go over on a separate barge. The island workers go over on a ferry similar to the regular passenger ferry. There are 4 parkings lots for the passenger ferry, 3 of them satellite with a shuttle; the shuttle cost is yet another capital and operational cost. And there is a huge parking area for the workers at a separate commercial ferry site. So land use just for parking on land side is a few dozens of acres, most of it in former marsh land.

Getting around is terribly expensive; it costs $200 to get a work truck over to Bald Head on the barge, $15 for a single passenger on the paasenger ferry plus many $ per day to park your car on landside, and $50 to rent a golf cart for the day. You need one for most of the island due to size; it is 4 miles west to east.

So thinking that Bald Head Island per se is a good general model is foolishness, unless you are a millionaire. It is not a place for Joe and Jane average and their family to visit due to the transport costs alone. But, if you want to eventually reduce the island use and population, what better way than to cost it out of the reach of most people?


RE: Passenger Ferry - Ocracoke




Looks to me like they could get in by either Big Foot Slough Channel or Nine Foot Shoal Channel.





RE: Passenger Ferry - Ocracoke




i hope dennis can chime in and give us the govt spin on how this benefits global diversity and defetes man made climate change while properly managing the plover birds that abhor orvs.


RE: Passenger Ferry - Ocracoke




www.uncpressblog.com/2011/07/05/riggs-interview/


RE: Passenger Ferry - Ocracoke




The catamaran ferry shown in the article is made for making good speed in deeper water. Typical draft is 6' for small ones and up to 9' for larger passenger ones; I dunno on this particular one but 4' would be unusual or maybe not possible; the deep vee shape and the small 'footprint' of the hull automatically results in a deeper draft. (Sorry, it's a laws-of-physics thing, and is not subject to change from political pressure or dreaming.) The car ferries used to Hatteras are 4' draft.

The longer ferry route over to Silver Lake will probably require another dredged channel to accomodate the draft of this type of ferry (and even if it is a 4' draft), and with the shallower car ferries hanging up as they do, the catamaran's draft will require limited speeds for safety; any high speed encounter with a shoal would likely result in injuries. So the inherent speed of the craft design does not appear useful here. Accomodating more passenger flow for day visitors with lower capital cost is the benefit if it is doable.

The environmentally counterproductive side of this idea is that more land will have to be put under asphalt for parked cars on the Hatteras side. There is nowhere near adequate parking for the cars to utilize this. So that capital cost and use of land for this (that will lie idle most of they year) has to be counted in it's costs.

As for Bald Head Island, any work trucks go over on a separate barge. The island workers go over on a ferry similar to the regular passenger ferry. There are 4 parkings lots for the passenger ferry, 3 of them satellite with a shuttle; the shuttle cost is yet another capital and operational cost. And there is a huge parking area for the workers at a separate commercial ferry site. So land use just for parking on land side is a few dozens of acres, most of it in former marsh land.

Getting around is terribly expensive; it costs $200 to get a work truck over to Bald Head on the barge, $15 for a single passenger on the paasenger ferry plus many $ per day to park your car on landside, and $50 to rent a golf cart for the day. You need one for most of the island due to size; it is 4 miles west to east.

So thinking that Bald Head Island per se is a good general model is foolishness, unless you are a millionaire. It is not a place for Joe and Jane average and their family to visit due to the transport costs alone. But, if you want to eventually reduce the island use and population, what better way than to cost it out of the reach of most people?


Beachmark - These are very thoughtful and considered comments. Hopefully the private concern will evaluate the risk and ROI.

[a contract for a feasibility study was recently awarded to Volkert, a company that specializes in transportation and infrastructure engineering services to federal, state and municipal government and private industry clients. The final report will be issued in December, but the company will keep the ferry division informed of its findings throughout the year.]



RE: Passenger Ferry - Ocracoke




www.uncpressblog.com/2011/07/05/riggs-interview/



[b]“This discussion should begin now, so that as the never-ending stream of storms take their toll, we can systematically begin adapting to the changing conditions. The Outer Banks of northeastern N.C. are rapidly becoming a natural “string of pearls,” with small villages connected by a series of vast shoals. In this context, we must soon determine whether to rebuild the Oregon Inlet bridge and forever fight expensive battles trying to maintain a fixed highway on the narrow and collapsing simple barrier islands. Or should we adapt to the ongoing changes and [u]develop[/u] a new high-tech ferry system that will connect all the Outer Banks villages with the mainland villages.”[/b]

-Dr. Stanley R. Riggs, coastal and marine geologist

[b]“However, the "specialness" of Hatteras does not lie in more and more concrete; to my mind, it lies in the largely pre-Bonner Bridge history of the island, when the special culture of Hatteras actually developed (and is disappearing fast, if there is much left at all), and in the wonderful natural environment of the island, which will be nothing but further degraded by futile attempts to fight sea-level rise.

Sorry. Take the Bonner bridge down and make it an artificial reef, and go back to the old ferry system for whatever remaining time the villages on Hatteras have. ”[/b]

-Michael Orbach, professor emeritus of marine policy at the Duke Marine Lab in Beaufort, N.C.

[b]“As a scientist and a card carrying member of the American Audubon Society, I fully support the de-population of Hatteras Island. This fragile island is critically important to any number of threatened and endangered species. The whole island should be under federal control to allow the continued survival of birds and turtles. The seashore and breeding grounds are a national treasure, and must be protected. ”[/b]

-Anonymous poster, “Island Free Press”



The comments listed above, (with level of honesty increasing from top to bottom), appear to be based more on activism than science.
They also exhibit a total disregard for the right of the human species to safely exist on the Outer Banks.

Dennis should also be reminded that under Riggs’ “let nature take its course” plan, his home in KDH could end up either in an inlet, or on the wrong side of one.





RE: Passenger Ferry - Ocracoke




The Ferries Riggs wants to 'develop' will be passenger only unless he can have the laws of Physics and Gravity repealed. But since the ultimate goal is the depopulation of Hatteras that fits perfectly with the plan. Remember it's not about the birds or turtles.


RE: Passenger Ferry - Ocracoke




Remember it's not about the birds or turtles.


To you.


RE: Passenger Ferry - Ocracoke




www.uncpressblog.com/2011/07/05/riggs-interview/



[b]“This discussion should begin now, so that as the never-ending stream of storms take their toll, we can systematically begin adapting to the changing conditions. The Outer Banks of northeastern N.C. are rapidly becoming a natural “string of pearls,” with small villages connected by a series of vast shoals. In this context, we must soon determine whether to rebuild the Oregon Inlet bridge and forever fight expensive battles trying to maintain a fixed highway on the narrow and collapsing simple barrier islands. Or should we adapt to the ongoing changes and [u]develop[/u] a new high-tech ferry system that will connect all the Outer Banks villages with the mainland villages.”[/b]

-Dr. Stanley R. Riggs, coastal and marine geologist

[b]“However, the "specialness" of Hatteras does not lie in more and more concrete; to my mind, it lies in the largely pre-Bonner Bridge history of the island, when the special culture of Hatteras actually developed (and is disappearing fast, if there is much left at all), and in the wonderful natural environment of the island, which will be nothing but further degraded by futile attempts to fight sea-level rise.

Sorry. Take the Bonner bridge down and make it an artificial reef, and go back to the old ferry system for whatever remaining time the villages on Hatteras have. ”[/b]

-Michael Orbach, professor emeritus of marine policy at the Duke Marine Lab in Beaufort, N.C.

[b]“As a scientist and a card carrying member of the American Audubon Society, I fully support the de-population of Hatteras Island. This fragile island is critically important to any number of threatened and endangered species. The whole island should be under federal control to allow the continued survival of birds and turtles. The seashore and breeding grounds are a national treasure, and must be protected. ”[/b]

-Anonymous poster, “Island Free Press”



The comments listed above, (with level of honesty increasing from top to bottom), appear to be based more on activism than science.
They also exhibit a total disregard for the right of the human species to safely exist on the Outer Banks.

Dennis should also be reminded that under Riggs’ “let nature take its course” plan, his home in KDH could end up either in an inlet, or on the wrong side of one.


dennis doesn't need to be reminded and is well aware that it could take only one strong hurricane to change the structure of the Outer Banks. Anyone who is thinking of sand/home purchase on the Outer Banks must consider that they are taking their chances with nature.

Using the quote from "Anonymous poster" cracks me up ... who knows just who the poster's really is? It could actually be Sea Urchin couldn't it?


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