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Should Run Drum be a game fish?

Should Run Drum be a game fish?




I think Red Drum should not be a game fish and there should be a commericial harvest for this species.


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RE: Should Run Drum be a game fish?




I was under the impression that red drum were over fished. The slotted limits and making them a game fish has seemed to help the numbers. Are you saying that there are sufficient numbers to allow more to be harvested, or are you doing a little fishing of your own?


RE: Should Run Drum be a game fish?




Don't think they are overfished at all and if rec anglers are allowed to keep 1 comms should have a share of the harvest. Some people like eating them but are not interested in catching them. I am more interested in what people on this message board think.


RE: Should Run Drum be a game fish?




I would like to point out that Redfish are a schooling fish. Not too many moons ago commercial fisherman were known to have flown spotter planes to locate schools of Drum and then sent the net boats after them. The stock was decimated in the late eighties and only moratoriums, and aggressive creel limits allowed them to rebound.
I'm also shocked that any net fishery would be on your "Like" list. What about the indiscriminate by catch of undersized and protected species that are often time thrown overboard dead? And yesterday you were worried about wasting bait fish while fishing with rod and reel?


RE: Should Run Drum be a game fish?




SquidPQ,
You misunderstood, I am not concerned about using fish for bait. I was pointing out the inconsistency of condemning the NPS for their trapping program as  being cruel,wasteful, upsetting the balance of nature or whatever if you  target drum for C& R using bait. I suppose you see it differently.
I only have heard about drum being caught with the aid of spotter planes in the gulf years ago. Gill nets are not totally indiscriminate you can use different kinds of netting with different soak times with different results. I haven't said that commercial drum can only be caught with gill nets they could be caught commericially on hooks quite easily.
I just think that drum can be a sustainable renewable food fish that can be caught and served locally, making it a game fish would keep that from happening.


RE: Should Run Drum be a game fish?




I would like to hear how you propose to regulate the catch of a fish that is so easily targeted commercially. From a strictly practical viewpoint how does the drum bring more local revenue as a gamefish or com fish. If a balance can be achieved that would be the most favorable outcome.
A great number of my ancestors made their livings catching fish and five of them paid the ultimate price in the process. I have cousins who still run a fish market in Cornwall. I respect the opportunity to make a living from the sea and believe fewer careers are more difficult. The ability to regulate the resource, given modern technology, is difficult. I don't believe that rod and reel fisherman make a significant impact while harvesting slot sized fish and releasing the rest - even though the bull shark may eat a few of them!


RE: Should Run Drum be a game fish?




Didnt we spend all of the 80's most of the 90's rebuilding the striper stock. Then we spent the latter part of the 90's enjoying a great fishery. The turn of the century saw overfishing both commercially and recreationally. The work that took almost 20 yrs was wiped out in less then 5 yrs. There has been a long fight to build red drum stocks back from where they were in the 80's. Would be a damn shame see the same mistakes that occurred with stripers happen again to red drum. Red drum grow a heck of a lot slower then stripers do.


RE: Should Run Drum be a game fish?




In NC red drum are a "bycatch" fishery, i.e., you have to have at least equal weight of other fish to a maximum of 4-7 fish (set by Director of DMF).

There is a cap of 250,000 lbs per year and payback if this poundage is exceeded. (this was effectively frozen by ASMFC.

Red drum don't grow slower than striped bass but live much longer with fish aged over 50.

Amount of slot fish is dependent on the success of the spawn and the slot fish are mostly 2 year old fish. Great year class in 2011 with lots of subslot fish in 2012 and bunches of slot fish in 2013.


RE: Should Run Drum be a game fish?




BW, I don't have the grafts in front of me. I want to say off the top of my head the drum slow down significantly in the mid 30" range where as stripers do not. On averge a 45" drum is much older then a 45" striper.

After going back over charts BW is right. At approximately 10yrs of age both fish would be roughly 40". Drum seem to slow there growth around that age.


RE: Should Run Drum be a game fish?




Drumrun,

I agree about the stripers. The great striper fishing is gone again. There should have been more regs, especially with rec fishermen. A single rec fishermen could conceivable have legally kept 730 stripers in one year in NC. I never  counted them up but I am sure I kept over 20 stripers some years. No commericial lic was close to that. And there was no shortage of boats out of OI or Rudie fishing for them.  NCDMV made a mess of striper fishing especially with the inane rules for commercial fishermen, 3 different seasons, the trawl boat fishery being the most inane, plus a gill net fishing season inside the inlets that was devastating.

It is interesting how the stripers year classes seemed to explode across the entire spawning range at the same time. There is still a lot of fishery management that is a mystery. But all those female stripers pulled out of the ocean in Feb with those great big huge roes never had a chance.

I digress, still not sure what you guys answer to the  question is, guessing you think they should be game fish. The point for me for not making these fish a game fish is not about conservation or restricting  fishermen's recreation but letting everyone have access to these important and historical fish. Ditto for drum and speckle trout. Just curious what people here think. Would be nice if some non fishermen gave their opinion.


RE: Should Run Drum be a game fish?




The non fisherman can order Mrs. Paul's Fish Sticks at Food Lion....
If you give somebody a fish, they'll eat well that night.
If you teach somebody to fish, they'll eat well every night.
(As long as they have countless hours to fish, while not catching.)


RE: Should Run Drum be a game fish?




S P Q,
Those fish sticks are not all taplia and catfish, which I try to avoid. I like the the idea of a local wild caught sustainable fishery. And I like eating rockfish, drum and speckle trout in that order. I would rather catch it myself but would have no problem buying it.


RE: Should Run Drum be a game fish?




S P Q,
Those fish sticks are not all taplia and catfish, which I try to avoid. I like the the idea of a local wild caught sustainable fishery. And I like eating rockfish, drum and speckle trout in that order. I would rather catch it myself but would have no problem buying it.


I put Redfish before Striper, but they are not too dissimilar. Channel Bass, Striped Bass. But I definitely stay away from any farm raised fish.


RE: Should Run Drum be a game fish?




Oat, you and I are in agreement here. Game Fish status takes the fish off the table for a segment of consumers. For many years (think since the 50's)Recs took unquantifiable numbers of the stock. I watched Grey Trout, Blowfish and Sea Bass get decimated pretty much everywhere along the Eastern Seaboard. I take 2 trips, Fall and Spring Trophy season out of Kent Island. In the last 5 years the catch is off the charts and the voracious Stripers are being blamed for eating all the Crabs. I do understand the need for Fisheries Management but politics should be kept out. How many votes does NY have on the MFC ?


RE: Should Run Drum be a game fish?




I know this is off subject but since stripers were entered into the thread- a 2011 article on a Comm caught with 10 tons of illegal stripers from the Chesapeake Bay. No wonder there is a decline if this is done over time. There are also some videos out there showing dead stripers thrown overboard due to by-catch.
I'm not against Comms by any means. I'm sure it takes place with the Recs also.

Click to follow link...


RE: Should Run Drum be a game fish?




Old #
There are problems on both sides, no doubt. Comm infractions are more obvious but no telling how many extra fish get brought in on all the private docks all over the Bay. It all adds up. There are way more recs than comms.
What is your opinion on gamefish status?


RE: Should Run Drum be a game fish?




Oat, you and I are in agreement here. Game Fish status takes the fish off the table for a segment of consumers. For many years (think since the 50's)Recs took unquantifiable numbers of the stock. I watched Grey Trout, Blowfish and Sea Bass get decimated pretty much everywhere along the Eastern Seaboard. I take 2 trips, Fall and Spring Trophy season out of Kent Island. In the last 5 years the catch is off the charts and the voracious Stripers are being blamed for eating all the Crabs. I do understand the need for Fisheries Management but politics should be kept out. How many votes does NY have on the MFC ?
FF, Do you know Big Daddy out of Kent Island?


RE: Should Run Drum be a game fish?




Not by that name.


RE: Should Run Drum be a game fish?




I see an upcoming article in National Parks Traveler Magazine discussing the "acrimony" between Recreational and Commercial fishing groups.

S.O. - why would you come here and try to foster a division between law abiding, cooperative groups?


RE: Should Run Drum be a game fish?





What is your opinion on gamefish status?


I sit in the middle of the fence. Comms should be able to make a living. And they should not knowingly abuse the regulations. Unfortunately this is not a perfect world and Comms will never be able to harvest only what their quota says they can have.

Recs don't expect to catch a record drum on every cast. Would be nice to do that but not a perfect world. They also may have a hand in reducing the drum stock.

Why should one group be favored over another group when both are equally at "fault"?

The only commercial operation I have a problem with is Omega Protein.


RE: Should Run Drum be a game fish?




Check out long liners. One man and a mate set a 23 mile string of baited hooks. When they return, whatever is caught is mostly dead. The stuff they can't keep (Marlins, etc.) are tossed overboard. I think that's a little indiscriminate.


RE: Should Run Drum be a game fish?




All baited hooks catch what fits. I have caught turtles ,birds and all kinds of fish I wasn't targeting using bait. That said marlins are not bad eating and are great smoked. Long lines can be a problem but there are fishing methods that can mitagate the problem somewhat.


RE: Should Run Drum be a game fish?




I see an upcoming article in National Parks Traveler Magazine discussing the "acrimony" between Recreational and Commercial fishing groups.

S.O. - why would you come here and try to foster a division between law abiding, cooperative groups?


I am not addressing non- law abiding groups, non sequitur.

I feel strongly that game fish status for red drum, speckle trout and stripers is an agenda pursued and started by rec fishing orgs. This is a going to be local problem as a bill to this affect has been before the general assembly already. I thought topics like this were exactly what this  message board was intended for. I really was only interested in finding information about the issue and seeing what the frequent posters think of gamefish status.  I doubt the message board was intended to be just a soapbox to discuss devious conservation groups, global warming, overreaching goverment and ORV and resource management in CHNS.

Interestingly I haven't received much information with regards to what some of you think of gamefish status with  the exception of a few (thanks fourtyfish and Old #art for a straightforward answer).

Hatteras what is your opinion on game fish status for Red Drum? 


RE: Should Run Drum be a game fish?




Sea Oat,
You said earlier that you thought Drum would be a sustainable food fish, and to that I disagree. That's why I mentioned that they are a schooling specie and can easily be exploited to levels we've seen in the past that caused the need for "Slot" sized regulations and in some cases a closed seasons. I feel that hook and line is the only fair and sustainable way to target Redfish for market consumption. They take too long to mature and are far from a sustainable specie. Dolphin Fish are by far the fastest growing and most plentiful fish out there. Let the commercials go after them and put them on the menu. (Be sure to call them Mahi Mahi so the sensitive and ignorant don't think they are buying Flipper.)


RE: Should Run Drum be a game fish?




Squid PQ
Thanks for your opinion. A hook and line fishery might be a good option, with a realistic gill net by catch, not sure how to do that.


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