Removing Old Dixie?

Removing Old Dixie?




Being a Northerner I've always taken notice of the Historical Symbol of the South when we cross over the Mason Dixon Line. I see it proudly flying on everything. I also see Old Dixie flying from many decks and poles around the OBX while vacationing in Salvo each year. Who will be removing Old Dixie from their beach lifestyle this year and for good? Conversely, who is leaving Old Dixie up?




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RE: Removing Old Dixie?




The way we have twisted everything that has any symbolism into a political conundrum I am getting ready to just fly the white flag of surrender.
To think that we can legislate morality or decency in a nation where we are now supposed to accept 28 different genders is almost comical.
I have never flown the battle flag of the confederacy, the southern Cross, but had I been inclined to do so a government mandate or political correctness run amuck would not change by inclination.
Everything offends somebody but I think our 1st amendment is damned near as important as our 2nd. The issue will, however, drive me to ask my dark skinned friends how they feel!


RE: Removing Old Dixie?




From my point of view I think this is something easy to do that makes the politicians feel better. Indeed we cannot legislate tolerance. I can tell you, living here we see the "stars and bars" a lot. I can't imagine having a reenactment without it. That does not mean that I'm insensitive to racism that exists but getting rid of the flag will not change that. Taking a line from South Pacific - you have to be 'carefully taught" when it come things like racism. We would be better off working with children to make an impact of how we view each other. The Civil War is over and we ALL have to get over it.


RE: Removing Old Dixie?




From my point of view I think this is something easy to do that makes the politicians feel better. Indeed we cannot legislate tolerance. I can tell you, living here we see the "stars and bars" a lot. I can't imagine having a reenactment without it. That does not mean that I'm insensitive to racism that exists but getting rid of the flag will not change that. Taking a line from South Pacific - you have to be 'carefully taught" when it come things like racism. We would be better off working with children to make an impact of how we view each other. The Civil War is over and we ALL have to get over it.


GL,
You are on the mark there. My point is that in an age when a white woman is black simply because she says she is, when a male triathlete can declare himself at woman, when terrorists aren't really terrorists - we are trending down a very confused path. It concerns me to think of the twisted messages that we are giving our youth and, as you stated, it takes careful learning and understanding to make people who they are - not the removal of a flag.
To glean the knowledge available from our history is not possible if we continue to change or "delete" certain aspects of that history. We are now witnessing several prominent American politicians touting the virtues of Islam, while many Muslims still practice slavery, stoning and mutilation. Things just can't be the way you wish them to be to serve the requirements of a specific moment or incident.
Some of this nonsense is because many of our "leaders" may know little or nothing about management, roll modeling or integrity - but they all got A+ in marketing!


RE: Removing Old Dixie?




Another example of the "holier than thou" telling everybody else what to do. They can all take a hike!



RE: Removing Old Dixie?




I have never owned or flown a confederate flag even though I have direct descendants that fought for the south. The negative symbolism that the confederate flag has gained is to be equally blamed by modern white supremacist and those who let them themselves be offended by the behavior of bigots.  Whoever is offended by the confederate flag is playing right into those people's  hands. Banning the flag will not stop racism or violent acts.
History turned into politics again. The best thing that could have been done is to ignore what offends you starting with the confederate flag. For a lot of people that flag is not a symbol of racial oppression and has significant  historical meaning to them and their families.

"Emancipate yourselves from mental slavery, none but ourselves can free our minds!"
Bob Marley


RE: Removing Old Dixie?




Being from Virginia I was certainly raised with a level of southern pride. I encounter many individuals that fly this flag with no racial intent. I encounter a smaller percentage of folks who are quite simply, racist. The flag itself has NOTHING to do with it. The flag is an inanimate object and the true history and symbolism behind it is not racial in nature. Those “PC” folks around us have told the story so many times though that the main stream media and the jackwagon politicians have turned this into a racial issue.

I had two hanging in the back of my garage for many years. I took them down several years ago based on the fact it made some of my friends that had more pigmentation than myself somewhat uncomfortable. That was my choice. If I would have been told to do so they would probably still be there today!

We flew our nation’s flag over camps here in the states that held Japanese “persons of interest” during WWII. If Japanese Americans are offended by our nation’s flag should we take that down as well? I think we are on a slippery slope as a nation when our rights can be taken away based on others feelings.



RE: Removing Old Dixie?




I have never owned or flown a confederate flag even though I have direct descendants that fought for the south. The negative symbolism that the confederate flag has gained is to be equally blamed by modern white supremacist and those who let them themselves be offended by the behavior of bigots.  Whoever is offended by the confederate flag is playing right into those people's  hands. Banning the flag will not stop racism or violent acts.
History turned into politics again. The best thing that could have been done is to ignore what offends you starting with the confederate flag. For a lot of people that flag is not a symbol of racial oppression and has significant  historical meaning to them and their families.

"Emancipate yourselves from mental slavery, none but ourselves can free our minds!"
Bob Marley


As much as I do not always agree with your opinions Sea Oat I certainly respect your right to have one. With this post I say: Well stated sir! Well stated indeed! The Marley quote was a superb cherry on top!


RE: Removing Old Dixie?




I grew up in New England and never experienced segregation. I don't have negative feelings towards the CSA battle flag other than it is an item from the Civil War.

As you can imagine, the 20-somethings on a car web site I frequent are going to town on this topic.

I just read "American Tempest" about the Boston Tea Party and surrounding events. The British observed that many of the Patriots behind the stars and stripes crying for liberty and freedom were wealthy slave owners.

The book mentions that a group of slaves sent a letter to the founding fathers meeting in Philadelphia asking that they be considered in the battle for liberty and freedom. The letter was conveniently ignored.


RE: Removing Old Dixie?




My only comment is the argument some folks are using that the flag is "heritage not hate". So that heritage would be going to war for slavery.


Confused smiley


RE: Removing Old Dixie?




Well Robert you would be wrong on that one. Just as with our fight for freedom from the British the Civil War started over unfair taxes being levied upon the merchants of the south who, at the time, did the vast majority of our exports. Slavery came into play when Lincoln decided he needed additional support and the emancipation efforts could help the Union.
You are a bright guy and I know you are claiming something typically taught in history class, but it is not accurate. I certainly believe the millions of people of many races who were, and are, enslaved suffer the most egregious wrong possible but I also believe we should not alter history to make us feel good or justify a wrong.


RE: Removing Old Dixie?




Well you know it is getting out of hand when the Apple Apps store has just banned any Civil War games... history simply IS.


RE: Removing Old Dixie?




From my point of view I think this is something easy to do that makes the politicians feel better. Indeed we cannot legislate tolerance. I can tell you, living here we see the "stars and bars" a lot. I can't imagine having a reenactment without it. That does not mean that I'm insensitive to racism that exists but getting rid of the flag will not change that. Taking a line from South Pacific - you have to be 'carefully taught" when it come things like racism. We would be better off working with children to make an impact of how we view each other. The Civil War is over and we ALL have to get over it.
Very well put, G-lady. Removing symbols does not change what is in people's hearts. A new symbol will spring up or another symbol subverted.



RE: Removing Old Dixie?




My only comment is the argument some folks are using that the flag is "heritage not hate". So that heritage would be going to war for slavery.
As far as your interpretation, I see the peace symbols and think of things like drug use deaths, permissive sex and HIV, Hanoi-Jane and unpatriotic antiwar types, and things I see as bad for society; I know I am not alone in this. So let's ban the hippie peace-sign while we are at it, since it has bad connotations for some.

But I suspect that symbol means different things to you so I am willing to let it go for your sake. How about some reciprocity? Or does that not work with you?

It's Animal Farm all over again: "All animals are equal but some animals are more equal than others." Similarly.... "Your symbols must be banned but not mine."


RE: Removing Old Dixie?




Well Robert you would be wrong on that one. Just as with our fight for freedom from the British the Civil War started over unfair taxes being levied upon the merchants of the south who, at the time, did the vast majority of our exports. Slavery came into play when Lincoln decided he needed additional support and the emancipation efforts could help the Union.
You are a bright guy and I know you are claiming something typically taught in history class, but it is not accurate. I certainly believe the millions of people of many races who were, and are, enslaved suffer the most egregious wrong possible but I also believe we should not alter history to make us feel good or justify a wrong.


BiggestSquid.....I understand the tariff/tax issue between the North and the South that started many years before the Civil war. That issue fueled the dislike the Southerners had of the North. Probably some southern historians would say it was THE cause of the Civil War although I disagree that it was THE cause. I think it depends on the location of where you sat when you took your history class. smiley with shades


RE: Removing Old Dixie?




My only comment is the argument some folks are using that the flag is "heritage not hate". So that heritage would be going to war for slavery.
As far as your interpretation, I see the peace symbols and think of things like drug use deaths, permissive sex and HIV, Hanoi-Jane and unpatriotic antiwar types, and things I see as bad for society; I know I am not alone in this. So let's ban the hippie peace-sign while we are at it, since it has bad connotations for some.

But I suspect that symbol means different things to you so I am willing to let it go for your sake. How about some reciprocity? Or does that not work with you?

It's Animal Farm all over again: "All animals are equal but some animals are more equal than others." Similarly.... "Your symbols must be banned but not mine."


All well said Beachmark but I never said anything about banning the confederate flag. Go back and reread my post.


RE: Removing Old Dixie?




My only comment is the argument some folks are using that the flag is "heritage not hate". So that heritage would be going to war for slavery.
As far as your interpretation, I see the peace symbols and think of things like drug use deaths, permissive sex and HIV, Hanoi-Jane and unpatriotic antiwar types, and things I see as bad for society; I know I am not alone in this. So let's ban the hippie peace-sign while we are at it, since it has bad connotations for some.

But I suspect that symbol means different things to you so I am willing to let it go for your sake. How about some reciprocity? Or does that not work with you?

It's Animal Farm all over again: "All animals are equal but some animals are more equal than others." Similarly.... "Your symbols must be banned but not mine."


All well said Beachmark but I never said anything about banning the confederate flag. Go back and reread my post.


RE: Removing Old Dixie?




... our fight for freedom from the British the Civil War started over unfair taxes being levied upon the merchants of the south ...


Took high school American history south of the Mason-Dixon line, eh? Theeth smiley


RE: Removing Old Dixie?




I'm a "Yankee". To me the confederate flag represents the southern pride. Nothing racist. Yes, I have one, but it choose to fly the American flag out of respect of those who might feel differently. USA Flag


RE: Removing Old Dixie?




To me the Flag represents a backward way of thinking. It represents a huge scar on our country. It also represents the losing side of a war. To those who wave it, I just laugh. Wondering if they really know why they wave it, or do they do it because they know no better.

All that said, I am glad that I live in a country that gives them the right to do that.

I server this country in the Marine Corps to protect their misconceived notions about what the flag stands for, and I would be ashamed if they lost that right.

Just like the person who wants to desecrate or stomp on Old Glory, I gladly let them have that right, so to for the old hillbilly who wants to wave Old Dixie.

And if anyone would like to debate the Civil War, feel free. I have a BS in American History with a focus on the Civil War. Taught Social Studies for a few years before I decided to pursue a career in technology.

As I write this post I am looking at the cover of a book from the Great Shelby Foote, Stars in their Courses. The cause of the war is quite complicated and no one singular cause stands out. It only stands out if you wish to make a point.


RE: Removing Old Dixie?




The family members of the slain Charleston minister are giving us a lesson on how to handle a terrible tragedy with grace and dignity. i listened and watched their interview on Fox News,and they were the most inspiring people I have seen in a long time. They displayed no hate or retaliation plans. The people of Charleston are to be commended for their exemplary behavior. Especially when compared to many recent events.

I seriously doubt if many confederate soldiers or other confederates were fighting for slavery. Why would they? They were as poor as church mice and didn't have slaves. Most people back in those days had a real hard time. Most people suffered from poverty and many were indentured servants. More groups than one were mistreated.

The small well-to-do class owned slaves. The rank and file of the Southern armies was composed of farmers and laborers who volunteered to protect home and everything dear from Northern invaders, to keep their traditions and be left alone.


RE: Removing Old Dixie?




Always wondered what flag the northern slave owners flew ?


RE: Removing Old Dixie?




Always wondered what flag the northern slave owners flew ?


Northerners had slaves yes, no denying that. Not sure about their flag.


RE: Removing Old Dixie?




... the Great Shelby Foote ...


Theeth smiley My wife received a baby shower invitation from VA. One of the people throwing it was named Shelby, which I thought was a guy's name.

My wife said it's either, more commonly female. I mentioned Shelby Foote. She countered with Shelby Lynne. I mentioned another male. She quickly countered. I saw I was going to lose this one. smiley


RE: Removing Old Dixie?




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